Subject: rethink-chat> The whole picture
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 18:25:19 -0500 (102 lines of text)
From: Facpat at aol.com

This whole discussion is getting somewhat boring to me and
others who have written to me telling me the same thing.

There are some people on this reflector who propound
elaborate theories about AIDS, when we have all agreed that
AIDS as a disease entity does not exist!
 Every person has become ill from a different set of
circumstances, so that it will never be possible to
duplicate it in the laboratory.  I even have doubts about
Peter's proposed mice experiments with poppers.  What will
it prove?  Only that poppers are toxic and can kill.  We
already know that, don't we?  At least all rational beings
have known this for a long, long time.  I knew it way back
in the 60s and 70s (and of course I am a rational being) and
refused to use them because of their toxic nature. That is
the only thing I did not do!  My lifestyle alone carried me
to the edge twice, but I was able to recover because I
changed my lifestyle on two separate occasions.  I know from
first hand experience how people lie about the drugs and sex
they did, and still do.  In a sense it is not lying because
they have so suppressed it that they are not even conscious
that they have done it.

Paul professes to be "wholistic" and then ignores the
"Principles of Holistic Medical Practice" by engaging in
reductionistic scientific speculation rather than seeking to
bring about some behavior modification regarding the gay
lifestyle.  The gay lifestyle has been modified, but through
the use of FEAR.
 That is how a fascistic government always controls people,
and our medical establishment and allied government agencies
are totally authoritarian.   My approach is to have gay men
take control over their own lives.  In that regard, I would
never tell them not to use poppers, but what poppers DO.
 There must be some honesty in regard to the drugs that we
all use.  Drugs and sex seem to be the two areas in our
civilization that can not be approached rationally by
anyone, especially the gay community.  The truth is that
poppers are one of the only true aphrodisiacs ever
discovered.  They are used not only for anal sex, but also
for oral sex just as much.  I have to take it on faith that
this is so.  However there has been much underground
literature written about the subject and I have known some
medical doctors who used them and they confirmed this to me.
When something causes such a fantastic high, you are never
going to be able to wipe it out completely.   I am not going
to be moralistic about it any more than I am about alcohol,
cigarettes, etc. Perhaps it is better to have one or two
giant orgasms and live a short life than to never experience
a true orgasm and live a long life.  In fact, it is just
those people who have never experienced orgasm who cause the
most trouble in our society.  This whole problem is
sociological and psychological, so that is what we should be
addressing, instead of getting bogged down in arcane
medical/scientific discussions that are nothing more than
speculative.

Gay men have largely created the problem and we should be
the ones leading the way out of it.  There is a certain
resentment on the part of gays having straights defining us
because that is how it has been all of our lives.  Thus the
resentment at Paul's dwelling on "anal insemination."  I
can't go into all the details of anal sex here because it
would be too graphic and I am sure the moderators would
reject it.  The psychological as well as spiritual benefits
can be documented and are still being explored by a very
deep underground at this very moment.  The closest thing
that comes to mind is the Tantric tradition of the East.
The secret is that spiritual energy and sexual energy are
the same thing.  All of that is being left out of the
current discussion.

Until we mature as a society, until gay men and others can
confront their sexuality, there will be continued
misunderstandings.  This takes a tremendous honesty on the
part of everyone concerned.  I do not see that happening,
unfortunately.

I refuse to believe that semen per se can cause illness.  I
have shown that 50% of heteros in Rio admit to anal sex and
the Brazilians are not known for their sexual moderation.
It is not anal sex that is the problem.  On the contrary, it
should be encouraged and explained so that more of us can
get more out of the sexual experience.  I don't even believe
that Dr. Ruth knows much about this subject.  I can show you
that there have been people who were fisting and having anal
sex (and this includes dildoes) for 20 years with no damage
to their anatomy.  They succumbed to the drugs they were
using to facilitate the process.  These included speed,
poppers, pain killers, etc.
 We need to find some drugs that are good muscle relaxants
and aphrodisiacs without the deleterious side effects. But
then we are a Puritanical society, aren't we?

I spoke for a French television company on Friday night and
explained much of the above to them.  I hope it goes out in
Europe.  We must stop being afraid of sex, no matter how it
manifests, and anal sex seems to be one of the standard ways
of doing it from the beginning of time.  We must learn to do
it without killing ourselves.

Then there is the whole psychological aspect in the gay
community toward self-destruction.  The pain of existing in
a hostile homophobic world is just too much to bear, and not
all people are capable of becoming philosophers.
 What are we doing about that?  Talking about the
deleterious effects of anal sex is not going to give gay men
anymore desire to live.  The pathology, created by the
straight community, has now boomeranged and is beginning to
affect women and their babies.  This horror show did not
start with the gay community, it started with all those
people in the straight community who have failed to
understand gays, just as the injustices perpetrated on
blacks has resulted in pathology in the black communities
and has come back to haunt us as a society.   Blacks are
beginning to realize it and to try to do something about it;
gays, however, have been almost totally brainwashed into
accepting death and disease as a part of their existence.
If all you straights want to do something about it, then let
us get busy and stop all this idiotic talk about AIDS.  The
problem is you know nothing about us, in spite of the fact
you think you do.  I challenge all of you straights to begin
to understand the gay experience and that means to begin to
understand the latent homosexuality that is present in 95%
of you.

Fred Cline, San Francisco